thanks to th_esaurus for the link

[luciazephyr]

I'd like to be the first person to say Thank you to Six Apart and Livejournal.

No, I am not joking. I now have a strong urge to slap anyone who's bitching about LJ's bannings. 'Cause, fuck, we have things good right now.

-Luce

ETA: miriam_heddy calls shenanigans in the comments here and raises a few points against the essay. Keep it in mind, folks.

Comments

[viva-fiasco.livejournal.com]

THIS IS AWESOME, TY VVVMUCH.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

*can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, frets*

Um, if you disagree, I apologize for the wording in my post? It's a bit harsh and I could change it?

[viva-fiasco.livejournal.com]

OH no no no I am very pleased with it! Sorry, talking in caps is such a habit I end up using it when I probably shouldn't. No, it's a great post, and I loved the way you worded it. Harsh is called for in this situation. :)

Sorry about the confusion!!

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

Um. Who is that person, and why am I singled out in their essay?

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

A former LJ user who left due to some incident.

And don't worry. Everyone is singled out. It's some nifty script they use. I thought my own heart stopped when I saw my name there.

[slodwick.livejournal.com]

OKAY WHEW.

I was like, dude, I have NO IDEA who this person is!!

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

*laughs* My first reaction was, "I have to delete all my RPS fic now."

Then I actually thought about it and realized that I'm not a big enough player in any fandom to warrant a name mention in an essay. You, on the other hand, Ms. 500 Fandoms... *grin*

*hands you some cookies*

[thothscribe81.livejournal.com]

This was a great article, it looked at things from a really interesting pov. Thanks for posting it, it definetly made sense

[vespertanmer.livejournal.com]

Really wonderful article. Thanks for the link.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm going to argue that it's a bunch of bullshit (albeit well-written bullshit). He's condescending and sets up straw arguments (with his "air quotes" in the second paragraph) and then characterizes any potential rebuttal as "whining."

And he does all this without ever engaging any of the legal arguments and discussions that have been made by fans who are lawyers (and there's a whole comm full of them). Nor does he ever admit that none of the things he calls "illegal" have ever been tested in a court of law (which means that no judge or jury has ever determined that they are, or would be considered, illegal).

He's clever and a decent rhetorician. But he's still an ass, and I find his unwillingness to actually enter into actual conversation with the lawyer fans out there really irritating, as is his scripting our names into his collective of "fans who need to know the Truth (as he tells it).

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

there's a whole comm full of them

I'd be supremely interested in seeing this comm, especially if they're discussing this essay or the topic thereof. I'm suddenly worried about just how illegal fannish activity is.

I'd be happy to hear this is bullshit because, frankly, his observations scare me quite a bit.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

This may not be the only one, but it's worth noting that he didn't engage them directly at any point:
http://community.livejournal.com/fandom_lawyers/

[red-eft.livejournal.com]

Nor does he ever admit that none of the things he calls "illegal" have ever been tested in a court of law (which means that no judge or jury has ever determined that they are, or would be considered, illegal).

This was my problem (well, my biggest one) with the essay- he says "a lot of things fandom does is illegal, and nobody wants to talk about it!" but he's wrong. Legally grey? Sure, maybe. Illegal? No.

Which was my major problem with LJ, actually, apart from the lousy PR. I understand their unwillingness to deal with legally grey areas, but that still doesn't mean what we do is illegal.

[hanachan01.livejournal.com]

In a way, he's right-yes, fandom is illegal. But most fandom is for no profit and the copyright owners realize this. I don't understand why it's so whiny to want to know what we are and are not allowed to post. I agree that demanding we can post whatever we want is bratty, but I would like to know what I'm allowed to do. I think that is my right as a consumer!

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

They did that a few days ago.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think SA/LJ's handling things halfway well right now.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

One of Six Apart's idiots has recently suggested that they reported the deleted fans to the government agency responsible for policing child abuse.

I'm obviously going to argue and say that TPTB at 6A are roundly idiots who can't keep their story (or their TOS) straight for more than five minutes.

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

Here's teh link. Scroll down to coffeechica.

http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/241884.html?thread=12745948#t12745948

Also, since I posted in my LJ about the article, a number of people have responded with further explanations of just what's so wrong about Mr. Terrible's terrible arguments.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

Wait, I should link you, shouldn't I?

Here.

[hanachan01.livejournal.com]

I was referring more to the writer of the article saying that demanding to know what we can post is whiny. I didn't know about the lj_biz post, though, so thanks for the link. I think LJ/6A haven't been handling this the best, but they are starting to try and fix their mistakes. I just wish that all of fandom wasn't so annoying and were more forgiving.

[ahab99.livejournal.com]

I do think there are a number of legal misunderstandings in the essay, and as he hasn't actually linked any of the law he's made definitive statements about I wouldn't take it as gospel truth. If he wants to tell us how we should be reacting to the law he should actually be engaging in the technicalities rather than just making grand rhetorical statements. Fanfiction has never been ruled on, and the one case that came close ruled in a way that protected it (though the case was then settled out of court, so at the moment there's no strong precedent on the issue). Obscenity and child pornography are murkier and changing all the time, but all the posts I've seen from real fannish lawyers who have actually cited the law have gone in the opposite direction from this poster.

There are certainly things posted on LJ that can get the poster into plenty of legal trouble, but I would not say that fandom is illegal and we should be kissing the boots of 6A for allowing us to get away with it for this long. Fandom has existed for years before LiveJournal and it will continue to exist for years after 6A collapses under its rather incompetent customer service. And that whole section about what Mr. and Mrs. Whitebread think is a complete straw man that has nothing to do with anything that the fans here have been arguing...

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

After spending some time at fandom_lawyers as Miriam linked above, I am more likely to nod along with you than with the essayist.

But still, it seems like there is very little (if any) precedent for rulings in modern fandom and it makes me nervous.

[mercystars.livejournal.com]

Dang, I nearly crapped my pants when I saw my user name on there...

*fans self*

*checks pants again*

[hanachan01.livejournal.com]

Wait, where is everyone seeing their names? What am I missing? I doubt my name would be on there, but I can't find anyone else's.

[lucia-tanaka.livejournal.com]

No, there was a script on that page the added in the reader's LJ name, as if referring to them, to the essay, near the top. For some reason it's not there anymore though... Maybe he's changed it recently... It was really freaky though.

[zooniverse.livejournal.com]

That post actually really wound me up. Though I agree, and said so in my last post, that Fandom needs to grow a pair and calm down, and that the things that get too close to Child porn should be deleted, to call Fandom a Peversion and in such an accusatory tone is taking it way too far.

Yes, the average joe on the street wouldn't get excited at he mention of fanfic, but they'd just think you were nerdy for referencing it, not an all-out pervert.

As for the legality of non child porny stuff, I think it's safe to say that in this web 3.0 age, Fanfic and such are actively encouraged, and, to continue to use Harry Potter fandom as an example (seeing as it's seemingly the one worst effected), it's become acceptable to the point where the canon creators are reading and enjoying and commending fanfic/art communities. (JKR gave a fansite award to Immeritus (http://www.immeritus.org) A sirius Black Fan community, and even went so far as to admit that she'd used fanart from there as her Desktop wallpaper. It's also believed she loves shoebox project, not that it's possible not to ;))

I think it's far to say that nobody is going to sue for fanfic anymore. It's now almost badge of honor for celebrity, a "you know you've made it when someone writes filth about you" kind of benchmark (Noel Fielding of The Mighty Boosh is perhaps the best example of this sort of attitude, given his tendency to read booshslashhaven and tell Julian about how horny it'd made im on their dvd commentaries ;)

IN conclusion, Fandom is not, by any stretch of the definition, a peversion, it's merely a particularly creative avenue of ones Geekdom. Trainspotters are not perverts (well, excet for CHristopher Lloyd's character in Track 29), ramblers are not perverts, scrabble enthusiasts are not perverts, yet they all receive the same reaction from the joe on the street.

And as for LJ's handling of it, I think this time around they're showing that they've learned from the mistakes of the strikethrough incident. Fandom, however, clearly has not, unless that lesson is "how to be ridiculously paranoid and blinkered"

[miriam-heddy.livejournal.com]

Large numbers of people in the USA view homosexuality as a perversion, and in some states, sodomy is still illegal. So even if Mr. Terrible were at all right in his legal speculation (which he is not), he fails to acknowledge that sometimes, the law is wrong, the people are wrong, and it's okay to be a "pervert."

Just imagine if he'd said "gay" instead of fan.

[introductory.livejournal.com]

Hear, hear. That essay scared the shit out of me, bullshit or not.