:frowny face:

[luciazephyr]

Tell me, LJ/DW. What does it mean when your teacher asks you to explain how you deal with your existential fear of death, you do so, and then they say,

Thanks for sharing. There is so much in this post that needs to be unpacked, but this board isn't the time or place for it and I do respect your beliefs as they are right now at this point in your life.

And earlier they asked me, "If you don't mind, tell me again what you are hoping to gain from the class?"



Um. Okay. Maybe the teacher just isn't very good at saying things without accidentally sounding condescending. I'm going to wait a few more weeks, see if this keeps up, and if it does I'll send a email to them drowning in politesse, asking them to please stop assuming atheism is a quaint little phase on my part.


ETA: :checks something: Teacher is an ordained minister with a degree in Divinity. Oh. :nervous, edges away from class:

Comments

[thene]

I would ttly take the first opportunity to use that phrase - beliefs as they are right now at this point in [one's] life - on the teacher's statements.

(Ngl, there's a tendency for believers to frame atheism as a lack of humility - I guess because we find religion to be a daily interplay between doubt and the experience of faith, and here are atheists being so gorram certain! I think that may be the cause behind the 'what are you hoping to gain from this class' question. I wonder if it's worth just outright calling him on it - saying that whatever his beliefs are, that yours are not the same as his should not be a barrier to you receiving education. Oh, he's a minister? Hope he doesn't start seeing you as some kind of pet project, fuck.)

You may be lucky enough for it to not matter at the end of the day; I had one philosophy of science tutor (the youngest of my university tutors, probably noncoincidentally) who was really committed to his own opinions within the subject area, which I did not share, and I wrote a final essay that ran totally against his beliefs and he gave me a pretty good grade for it. Some graders are fair even when they disagree with you. Others are just narrowminded, sure, but you could be fortunate.

[luciazephyr]

Ngl, there's a tendency for believers to frame atheism as a lack of humility

... What. No. No. WHAT. :flabbergasted:

I admit, I'm now really nervous about the class. First discussion was an intro post that explicitly asked us to share our beliefs, so I know I'm the only atheist in the class and IIRC the rest of the class is Christian. I think there is one agnostic guy. :hides in corner under textbook:

I need to find what the final for the class is now. Argh.

[thene]

Yeah. Could be partly related to the modern obsession with the god-of-the-gaps; a disbelief in god gets equated to a disbelief in gaps, which in the case of science-loving atheists is verrrry WTF.

Oh ow, forced decloseting. *headdesk* Do majorities just not get how uncomfortable that can be?

[luciazephyr]

That amounts to my beliefs. No science cannot explain everything today, but our understanding of the universe grows all the time. God strikes me as a kind of placeholder for what we haven't sussed out yet. I always thought the debelief in gaps was a good thing? It's kind of awesome, like, ROW ROW FILL THE GAPS. YOUR KNOWLEDGE IS THE DRILL THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS and such. Invigorating, no? I thought so, anyway. 8(

I don't mind, but I'm very out about everything lately. I could tell the agnostic guy wasn't comfortable with it though. Poor agnostic guy.

[thene]

I didn't express that well, sorry: what I mean is, some believers think atheists either aren't aware of the existence of gaps in knowledge, or are fundamentally reductionist about approaching them, which is bullshit; one can be perfectly aware of the unknowns without using god as a placeholder.

ah righty - I guess I read your nervous as discomfort. I do hope you can stay comfortable without becoming any kind of target. (I'm kinda surprised that such a high proportion of university-age people would be Christian, but I guess students of religion are self-selected for devotion). It's gotta be rough being an agnostic in that situation - so many Christians think agnosticism is either a 'rebellion' or a crisis of faith rather than, you know, a legit belief.

I am...not really in or out. Partly due to not being confident of what to be out about; pagans tend to be perpetually agnostic tinkerers, and it's not like there's a single damn thing we all believe in anyway. (So 'I'm a pagan' feels like non-information; 'I love esotericism, I follow Set, I read Taoist scriptures and philosophy of science, and I'm borderline on the whole theism thing' feels like TMI). I'm open about being a pagan if anyone asks, or if it's directly relevant, but it rarely is and I'm not about to bring it up. At least a couple of people at one of my jobs know; at the other, I think I'm one of only two non-Christians there (the other is an Ethiopian Jew) and it's like everyone can tell I'm nonchristian but they're politely not challenging me on it. :/ So it fades into the woodwork. Much like bisexuality, fuck.

[luciazephyr]

I always find it kind of hilarious that some people use gaps as proof of God's existence and I use gaps as proof of God's nonexistence. 8D

I'm kinda surprised that such a high proportion of university-age people would be Christian

I live in rural Missouri, dear. And the town where my Community College is located? Former stronghold of the KKK. Don't be surprised.

but they're politely not challenging me on it

This always baffled the hell out of me. I mean, Christianity is a massive majority in America, to the point I've had coworkers ask me what Judaism is because it's a totally foreign concept to them. MASSIVE majority, and yet every few months, some church goers come around, pass out flyers, as us to attend their holiday service, et cetera. I... don't get it. They're obviously not lacking in members. What's the point?

[thene]

Heh. I guess because most people are polite about not ramming their religion down your throat at work, I am only hazily aware of the religiosity of people my-age-and-younger here in semi-rural Georgia. It's kinda notable that those who notably disdain Jesus are all trying to move out of state asap.

I mean, Christianity is a massive majority in America, to the point I've had coworkers ask me what Judaism is because it's a totally foreign concept to them. MASSIVE majority, and yet every few months, some church goers come around, pass out flyers, as us to attend their holiday service, et cetera. I... don't get it. They're obviously not lacking in members. What's the point?

I KNEW I'D READ A REALLY GREAT BLOG POST RELATED TO THAT, AND IT TOOK ME AGES TO DIG IT UP AGAIN. HERE IT IS.

[sockich]

and I do respect your beliefs as they are right now at this point in your life.

...well alrighty then. How very fucking magnanimous of him. :|

I really hope you don't have too many problems with this guy.

*atheist fist-bump*

[luciazephyr]

Oooh, we have a fist-bump? 8D

[sophia_sol]

...That sounds like a teacher who is doing a very bad job of keeping their personal beliefs outside the classroom. Fail.

What's the class on? Something religiony? Philosophy? Something entirely unrelated?

[luciazephyr]

No, it's a Religions class. I wanted to take it to get background in different faiths because my personal beliefs are not my characters' beliefs.

[sophia_sol]

Ah, fair enough! Then that is such a fail on the part of the religions prof. *flails* Studying religion in university is an ACADEMIC study, and one's personal belief shouldn't be drawn into that!

(Actually, the only religions prof I've ever had who was a fail about this was a fail in the opposite direction: an atheist, who had little patience for believers. ALSO not useful...)

[thene]

How very, uh, privileged on the teacher's part. I've taken religion electives in both Buddhist theology and in medieval beliefs about witchcraft; in neither case were students expected to be members of the faiths being studied. But as soon as Christianity is on the table...!

[samjohnsson]

Um, holy hell. What is this class supposed to be, and when are you filing a complaint with the department?

I will freely admit to having used the second line, the If you don't mind, tell me again what you are hoping to gain from the class? on a student who was failing to show or perform. But to a student who's doing the work? That's completely inappropriate.

[luciazephyr]

Living Religions, and if it keeps up, I might.

Now I'm looking into what the final paper is supposed to be. Maybe I can write about Christian proselytizing and privilege.

[samjohnsson]

The paper topic is a bad idea - the prof will see it as a personal attack.

That said, unless it's a Christian university, it's an inappropriate comment that tells me the class will be biased toward Judeo-Christianity and away from any other faiths presented (probably the other Big Five). I would document all remarks (if you have any doubts, get a mini-corder and dump it to your computer after each class). Worst comes to worst, is this a class you -have- to take this semester?

[luciazephyr]

Noted, re: paper topic.

I take online classes. No, not Christian, and not a required class, but I don't have many other options in class choices and it's a class I was looking forward to.

I'm saving all the sketchy remarks to a file, yeah. 8)

[samjohnsson]

More, re: paper - the topic could work, but you'd be walking a very fine line and would have to probably target a specific aspect of such. And s/he might still read it as a personal attack. Maybe not so much about Christian proselytising, but a paper about the invisible minorities like atheists or pagans, and the repercussions of assumptions of faith?

In online classes, noone can see you drink/smoke/grind your teeth. Keep it in mind.

Is the class taught another semester by another teacher?

Either way, we're here for ya, and looking forward to frequent and detailed rants. ^.-

[luciazephyr]

Oh god the repercussions of assumptions of faith is a great idea. :would love to look at Final Paper on syllabus but boo, the site is down:

The class only has one online offering, so doubtful anyone else teaches it.

Either way, we're here for ya, and looking forward to frequent and detailed rants. ^.-

Bitching on Twitter is my new hobby, not gonna lie. ♥ Thank you.

[samjohnsson]

/em perks his ears up.

Twitter? PM me your handle?

[luciazephyr]

No need to be secretive. LucyZephyr. 8D Warning, I whinge about writing fic a lot.